Viper Terminators in I&A

This is an off-topic thread for talking about whatever.

Moderator: VileAce

Post Reply
TrashPanda
Posts: 1
Joined: February 21st, 2019, 8:07 pm

August 7th, 2019, 9:30 pm

After a bit of time in the team speak on the Altis channel, you're bound to hear something about how vipers are terminators. From what I've heard, this is due to the damage scaling of the server resulting in CSAT soldiers, vehicles, etc. doing more damage and taking less damage than players who use the same equipment. While this makes sense in theory for balance and giving the AI a chance against players, in practice it often results in frustration and annoyance from what I have been able to see.

While I'm all for difficulty, I think the damage scaling on the Invade and Annex servers is a bit overdone. It was a good experiment in balancing, but I don't think it has added to the server experience when players can shoot AI with twice the munition that the AI shoots them with while the AI still walks away and the player is downed.

User avatar
VileAce
Site Admin
Posts: 1547
Joined: April 6th, 2017, 1:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 8th, 2019, 3:48 am

From what I've heard, this is due to the damage scaling of the server resulting in CSAT soldiers, vehicles, etc. doing more damage and taking less damage than players who use the same equipment. While this makes sense in theory for balance and giving the AI a chance against players, in practice it often results in frustration and annoyance from what I have been able to see.
This is absolutely not true. Everyone is free to open our mission and look for anywhere that we make the AI equipment better in any way. This is a common misconception from players that stand out in the open and try to go one on one with the AI.

Now to be clear, CSAT clothing, in general, has higher levels of protection than similar Blufor clothing but that is the way Arma is made, that is not changed by us at all, and the amount is not that big of a difference. You can see where this has been discussed many times before on the internet in general:

Example
https://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/ ... _tripping/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/d ... 126049025/

We allow players to use mods on our server and there are plenty of mods, that have adjusted the protection levels of Blufor uniforms and vest to that of CSAT. In the arsenal, you can see the different levels of protection for each item.

To be clear so rumors do not get spread. We do not change any values of any equipment, (Uniform, Vest, Vehicles, Etc). All of our settings are vanilla Arma. We do not use any serverside mods, which would be required to change such values.

User avatar
Riot
Posts: 84
Joined: March 3rd, 2019, 2:48 pm
Location: Croatia

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 8th, 2019, 5:21 am

I've heard that rumor and insinuation so many times on servers, that I think that Viles "We do not change any values of any equipment, (Uniform, Vest, Vehicles, Etc). All of our settings are vanilla Arma. We do not use any serverside mods, which would be required to change such values" should be included into servers descriptions for everyone to be reminded of the fact.
Creating riots since 1985

User avatar
VileAce
Site Admin
Posts: 1547
Joined: April 6th, 2017, 1:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 8th, 2019, 10:52 am


User avatar
CPL.Cunningham
Posts: 10
Joined: May 15th, 2017, 3:20 pm
Location: Canada

August 8th, 2019, 5:33 pm

It might just be something with the game it self. But that being said, I was in a slammer crew and saw the main gun round hit a viper center mass and he got back up.
There is a day to be brave and a day to flee. In life there is triumph and defeat.

User avatar
VileAce
Site Admin
Posts: 1547
Joined: April 6th, 2017, 1:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 8th, 2019, 7:49 pm

Armor-piercing tank rounds, are not configured for hitting soft targets so the damage is strange (damage on soft targets is normally calculated based on velocity and caliber, that is not true for Armor-piercing tank rounds). That is a Bohemia issue.

Bandit-Angel 1-
Posts: 161
Joined: February 8th, 2017, 1:27 am

NAK Tac

NAK Command

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 9th, 2019, 1:57 pm

I don't think they're talking about AP rounds vile. I've hit enemies with the HE rounds and they get back up. Same thing goes for the 105mm on the Blackfish. Direct hits. The Atlas Hitmarkers mod flashes white for hits and red when they are confirmed kills so between this mod and visual confirmation they do get back up. Could this be another case with the tougher CSAT armor?
"Throw me to the wolves but know I will return leading the pack"

User avatar
VileAce
Site Admin
Posts: 1547
Joined: April 6th, 2017, 1:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 9th, 2019, 7:21 pm

You need to do some exploration into the damage hit model. Although this video does not talk about tanks rounds specifically it does explain how a player can be hit but talk little to no true damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7521ysymZY

This is a little older of a post but most of the information is still valid. It is a very informative post, but one of the key things to take out of it is, the sections on Formula for indirectHit Damage and Weapons Combining Hit and indirectHit, Knowing that direct hits with any tank type round, does not work well in Arma, you need to use HE rounds and shoot the ground within 4 m of the unit (person) No tank or artillery type round in Arma is meant for people.
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arm ... escription

Then there is this post, that talks all about the math of the Arma damage model. https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Damage

This issue is discussed all over the internet and is not specific to our servers, another issue to talk to Bohemia about.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/d ... 186114312/

Regarding Atlis hit markers, you need to understand how Atlis hit markers works, Atlis hit marker only show when it detects a hit and when the unit is dead, it does not care about the level of hit, so it could be a hit with 0 damage. So yes units will get hit and fall down, but not be dead. Part of VCOM AI is rag dolling, causing a unit that is not dead to fall down and get up or take enough damage that they need to heal themselves, then get up.

Bandit-Angel 1-
Posts: 161
Joined: February 8th, 2017, 1:27 am

NAK Tac

NAK Command

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

August 11th, 2019, 12:31 pm

When we talk about things such as this do we ever send anything to Bohemia directly? The idea being to help them get a better idea of what's going on within the community or do you think they already have a good idea of what's being talked about? I don't know how receptive they are or what their plans are for updates so this is just me trying to learn how improvements are made on their end.
"Throw me to the wolves but know I will return leading the pack"

User avatar
Lozzy
Posts: 7
Joined: April 8th, 2019, 7:17 am

August 13th, 2019, 11:03 am

BI's decision to make mortar shells utterly devastating but the HE shells in tanks fairly pathetic does seem rather odd. I'm not a military man though so maybe thats how it is on an actual battlefield. Seems hard to believe though.

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users