AI AA vs Player AA

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Spuds
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July 15th, 2019, 8:57 am

Question; I don't know too much about the server end of things but can anything be done about the vastly unfair advantage enemy AA has? I'll pop every flare i got and the missiles still hit me, they dodge like 2/3rds of my AA except when in the tigris, they don't dodge those so well. Ground tho, Titan AA's which is what I assume the AI are using the enemy can dodge so many but nearly every one hits me.
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July 15th, 2019, 1:51 pm

well when dodging missiles u cant rely on only flares, u have to also do evasive maneuvers. I think another aspect of it is the fact that the enemy aa has over whelming numbers and just fire missile after missile while player only fire 1 or 2.

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July 15th, 2019, 2:26 pm

There is a skill in using flares. Using too many flares is as bad as not flaring at all. When you flare to much you are actually guiding the missile directly to you. The purpose of the flare is to give the missile another target. It is best to flare one burst when the missile is approximately 1.5 k away and change your direction by 90 degrees. It also helps to change your attitude at the same time as changing direction, but you need to be careful not to bleed off too much speed. You need to keep your speed up for the next missile that is sure to be shot.
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July 15th, 2019, 2:34 pm

Majority of my Wasteland hours are spent in littlebird, and whit it I manged to dodge AA from ground and air. Combination of angle relative to rocket path, caff flare dispenses and the ability to spot threat early were the ticket. My SOP is when missile threat is detected (around 4 K out sensors detect targets):

EVASION SOP ROTARY

missile 4 k out: Turn tail toward the missile threat, gain speed (energy)
missile 3 k out: gain a bit of altitude (to make space for sharp turn) (still at speed) star turning left or right
missile 2 k out: track missile, if possible VID. Finish turning to 90 degrees of missile
missile 1 k out: exchange all speed for height (will get you around a hundred meters or so alt) and turn sharply towards missile tracking missiles path. When Its reeeeeealy close (around 500m, I remember the sight picture, I cant say how far missile is at, below 1 k for sure, almost half way to you). Now you are in a position were missile used most of its fuel, and its climbing at an angle turning towards you. Perfect situation to push missiles AoA (angle of attack, basically how sharp a turn it can make at certain speed more or less) I tip the nose now almost looking at the missile which is now at my like 10 o'clock, and then just trade that height for speed toward the missile and jinx back away from the missile with nose up when you feel it should hit you. Dispense caff flare through acceleration.
With that kind of procedures I doged multiple threats no problem, and outcomes are quite realistic imo. For instance I would be able to shake 2 missiles the third one would corner me, or I would manage to loose missile behind a hill. If we would know what parameters missiles use in ARMA 3 (how does the game actually track targets for missles.? Is it diferrent tracking between radar or heat seeking, how are they modeled to fly , AoAs and such...) it would be much easier to discuss evasive tactics. Will try to find out more!

EDIT: oh Vile, we posted at the same time :P yours have pictures :))
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July 15th, 2019, 4:09 pm

Riot you explain it very well.

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July 15th, 2019, 4:37 pm

Thank you Vile! On the AI note, when I engage them (from ground) they tend to use similar tactics. Fast movers use speed to outrun the missiles. If you shoot at AI from close, fast mover will jinx to close the angle to the missile and dispense chaff flare, and usually defeat it. Armored rotary, such as Apache can just soak up some hits, so fire multiple AA for increase of hit. Frequency is important, as Vile said before, the moment they do a turn to dodge a missile, another should be be under 1 k away from the fast mover to hit it effectively and to ignore chaff flare for previous one.

You want the first rocket to make pilot evade it and focus on it, while second missile being to close to him to react to. Second is that this creates converging missile paths toward a target. Due to the movement of target, missiles spaced around 1 to 1,5 k from each other will try to cut of targets path, first one will overturn and miss due to targets turn, but that will put target on seconds rockets 10 to11 o'clock position with missile being under 1 k away from tgt.

2 rockets fired in quick succession will have parallel paths to the target (because they fly close apart). For a pilot, that is only one threat to defeat. Multiple missiles but single sided threat. With AA you want multiple simultaneous threats towards air targets with different vectors of attack. (For instance two or three AA launcher spaced around 50 to 100m (could be a nice topic on its own) apart engaging the same target at the similar times to achieve and maximize converging paths effect)

GROUND TO AIR ENGAGEMENT SOP (Titan AA) 1 shooter
So I would fire one, count 2 Mississippi, fire another.
That gives (Titan AA) rocket around 1 k spacing between them.
AI turns to dodge the first, and another catches it when he is coming out of a turn beyond chaff flare series that AI dropped in a turn. Be advised, for this frequency optimum engagement range is around 2 k out of target. Far enough for missiles to attain speed and angle, and close enough to trap a fast mover in second missiles envelope.

Ground AI on Wasteland fires AA in that frequency (i think its multiple AI firing at me so it spaces out like that naturally). Those double 1 k spacing missile attack were hardest to defeat. Makes for a very efficient trap.
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July 16th, 2019, 5:44 am

holy cow there's a whole art to this lol... Since the ai on wastelands usually wont react until youre really close (ground ones and tanks, ac react the moment you show up on radar) most of the missiles fired at me are within 1k i have been trying to extend and evade... while popping flares. my 1st mistake was popping a lot of them. 2nd mistake it says to exchange speed for alt... i've been going lower trying to go faster and get away lol
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July 16th, 2019, 5:44 am

This should be somewhere in our forums under tutorials lol
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July 16th, 2019, 6:59 am

Yeah, you don't want to try to outrun it unless you are in a fast mover and rocket is flying at you from long range. If slow, attack the missiles AoA.

Yeah, if you are slow, some altitude will give a missle more to work for, you get clearer missle VID. And being slower gives you GREAT manuverability at the end stages of missiles flight.

Concerning trading altitude for speed, its ok to stay low and fast if you have a hill to hide behind, it's more risky though because missle cans still reaquire you.

It is art man, like dogfighting, it's a dance of energy management and manevre. Gotta love it <3
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July 16th, 2019, 1:49 pm

Well thank you both for the help. I didn't know any of that.
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July 17th, 2019, 2:08 am

Ok this is what I dug up for missile characteristics :

Titan AA warhead
HE warhead
dmg value: 80
proximity fuse radius of 10 metres and a blast radius of 6 metres
It takes a further 2.25 seconds after launch for the missile to reach maximum thrust with a speed of 850 m/s.
Sensors: Infrared
max lock range: up to 3.5 km away
able to track moving targets that are flying at speeds of up to 900 km/h
The sensor's lock-on cone differs depending on orientation; horizontally it is limited to an angle of 7 degrees while vertically it is restricted to just 4.5 degrees.
If the target is 2.5 km (or further) away and is flying at a height of 500 metres or less, then the missile will also be unable to acquire a lock-on.

Source: https://armedassault.fandom.com/wiki/Titan_MPRL

The 9K38 Igla
HE-Frag
dmg value: 70
The 9K38 has an effective range of between 3,100 and up to a maximum of 5,200 metres.
lock-on range of 5,200 metres
Short of being in a bad position or heavy flare usage by the target, the 9K38 will almost always never miss its target.
Missle requires six inventory slots to carry:

The missile will only require an extra 1.5 seconds to reach a maximum flight speed of 800 m/s. The warhead has a blast radius of 8 meters while the seeker has a 20% susceptibility to flare countermeasures. Has better AoA than Stingers missile apparently.

Source: https://armedassault.fandom.com/wiki/Igla_9K38
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July 17th, 2019, 5:06 am

Well the Ai in wastelands are DEF using the titans, its all they ever have on them when you check their bodies. They do seem to be able to fire them unnaturally fast tho lol. Takes me a good 15-20 seconds between due to reload and reacquiring lock. I wish i was 3 of me then i could fire crazy fast titans too haha... Thats prolly the biggest diff... simple numbers... there's lots of them so when i go too slow too close too low its gotta be at least 3 of em firing at me bc ill have 4 missiles coming at me fast all on radar at the same time lol. Which usually triggers the "omg no" response in me and then i smooch the C button till im out of flares haha... p.s. i don't do well in cqb either haha im a panicker haha
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July 17th, 2019, 5:13 am

I stole the content in here since its not just for wastelands and made a new post under general, The techniques worked when i was able to keep myself from smashing the C button haha so i figured it should be somewhere everyone could see it... unless we have a help and tutorial section which i haven't seen
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July 17th, 2019, 7:09 am

Yeah, it is inf squads with multiple shooters. When I fly on Wastelands I NEVER EVER go closer than 2 k from ANY mission. They all have AA capability more or less, and sharpshooters put rounds into cockpit if you come close and slow enough with rotary. But what keeps me safe is nip of the earth flying. My ceeling is 50 m tops when going anywhere, average is around 20 m off the ground, and I let terrain dictate my flight path (e.g. I will fly longer path but I will always fly like there is a threat observing me so keep those hilltops between them and you. P.s Ty for combining those posts, makes for an easier read.
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