Thoughts on Tanoa server WARNING longer read!

Moderator: VileAce

User avatar
Riot
Posts: 39
Joined: March 3rd, 2019, 2:48 pm
Location: Croatia

March 16th, 2019, 11:12 am

Ok, I wanted to get a proper picture of Tanoa server and been playing it intensivly, so here are my observations so far on situations and issues encountered:

GENERAL OBSERVATIONS:

I have fell in love in NAK Tanoa server. Beautiful lush island and hilly topography make great opportunities for concealed observation and stealth engagement. After playing on Tanoa for couple of days, I can describe it with only one sentence: HARD CORE
Difficulty:
I have read people complaining about viper squad count coupled with the fact that AI sees through foliage and you can not, and it is true. Most of the time enemy will engage you first without you knowing where from and that can be frustrating if one plays on Tanoa server the same as on Altis for instance.

I have quickly found out that if proper discipline, planning and execution is thought out even a solo player can endure on the server. But it is hard, intense and unforgiving. I see it as escape and evasion practice when I'm alone, and guerilla warfare when in small groups. Mines are VERY useful in covering you back and it feels great when you hear AI tripping one off.

As someone has already mentioned here, it can get quite tactical, fact being that situation forces you to cooperate closely or you all die quickly. That has created a situation where you have few player playing the server but they are a constant small group of people that now, after couple of days playing there are achieving objectives successfully against all odds. There is something very satisfying when you crawl through the forest for 20 minutes, find that perfect spot deep in the shade, watching an objective through deep foliage, map the objective and then plan and execute sucecfull engagement.

WARNING LONG TXT!
SPECIFIC OBSERVATIONS:


AI behaviour observations:
AI reacts AMAZING! They hunt you down, deploy UAVs, they SWIM to your position to surprise you, and employ grenades to cover their approaches. Just wow, AI adds so much to intensity of this server.

Some issues I have noticed:
Armour values:
Tanks and other heavy vehicles have way too much amour. Today it took us 2 RPG shots and 2 titan shots to destroy Nyx from 150 meters out which felt odd and I had that instance multiple times, AA vehicle soking up 3 or 4 titan AT top down missiles before cooking. It could be that our AT weapon employment lacks precision because I had instances on server where I have employed Titan top down guided attacks on tanks engines and it would cook up from one shot, so it could be lousy AT weapons usage, or buffed up vehicles. I don't know.

Missions:

CIA:
currently that mission is unwinnable due to low player count. Usually there is not more than 10 people on when I play and it would take at least 4 people to even try to execute that mission, coupled with AI air superiority I don't see that happening. What it does is that CIA mission is simply ignored or tried by individuals only to fail 20 seconds after they start it. This should change with higher player counts.
Maybe to have CIA mission not spawn if server player count is lower than a certain number?
Or making a CIA agent on foot so he can be extracted more easily with fewer men (Snatch mission! YEAH :))

Artillery side mission issues:

Artillery has the magic ability to target you wherever you are. I am aware that that is probably how script works and with more players it gives good enemy arty effect, BUT when you are playing alone or when there are two or three of you, arty will drop straight on your head wherever you are. I have had situations where it landed straight on me in the middle of nowhere in some gully, just because I was alone on server. Multiple times when arty warning appears I would run for 100 meters away from my current location only to see arty dropping on my last pos, which fells like you can't be anywhere safe without the players fault, destroying your patient efforts to approach undetected and in peace if executed correctly.

Solution ideas:
Making arty firing only at players noticed by other AI if that is possible (sound complicate to implement imo)
Making AI arty fire dependent on player count? Maybe if there are less than 5 players not to shoot?
Designate prearranged points of the map for AI arty to engage automatically (e.g. for AI arty to engage spots without AI units in certain radius?)

Main AO locations:
Spots are good and I like the placements. Some of the placements are very tricky and offer a challenge. There Is one AO that is problematic. The AO west on the island very close to the base. Multiple times the base got engaged by AI air but we couldn'd engage it from base directly due to "Don't goof around at the base warning".
Not having a clear defined boundary of firing at base restriction makes it hard and annoying for these reasons:
You cant shoot AA launcher at incoming AI planes strafing vehicles around you in base, you need to halo somewhere very close to base.
When you jump close to the base, sometimes you get the warning nonetheless because you don't clear the restriction zone, thus need to run more out of the base to try to hit a plane. I think you see my point.
Possible solution proposals (taking into consideration that base AA defense is not a viable option as stated in the other topics):
Marking restricted fire zone on map so you know where you are allowed to shoot from.
Making the restriction zone smaller, so AA players can set up on outskirts of the base to engage overlying aircraft.
Making AI not fly over friendly bases, to avoiding the need to engage from near the base.

Mission count and spawn locations:

EMP detonation mission: due to is time sensitive nature it is a very hard mission to complete when there are few players especially when it spawns in AO. i have a feeling that supplementary mission spawn very close in AO making them extra hard to accomplish and players get overwhelmed very easily. If side mission are at least outside of AO players would have the ability and viable option to take down radars and other enemy assets better they get overwhelmed by air Armour and vipers that happens due to multiple overlapping mission areas where AI spawns.
That goes for mission count. When there are few players on there it is hard to do anything because you need to do multiple things in overlapping time frames and there is simply not enough hand on server to do it without a lot of frustration. (e.g. emp will blo up, take down radar so air does not spawn, take down arty so it does not kill you if you are still for too long. All of that needs to be done to have some chance and it all has to be done FAST, otherwise you have 2 planes and a helicopter around AO, arty falling every couple of minutes on your head, multiple viper squads coupled with regular squads, one or two tanks, one or two AA veh and multiple inf and soft vehicles all in the same area... and there is 5 of us on server (Same goes for pilots who get overwhelmed in the air reeealy fast))

so maybe lower the number of missions spawned dependent on player count?

I am aware that mission were designed for larger player counts and probably with 20-30 players playing most of the things stated here (except firing at the base issue) will not be an issue one and if server becomes more populated.



sorry for a bit longer report, but I think I covered most of the stuff. Please keep in mind that, these are just my observations from my perspective and given solution ideas are just that, I am aware that ideas given depend on the complexity of implementing those kinds of changes. Hopefully this will help to identify issues and look at possible solutions.
I think the low player count si due to need for the DLC to play it and because people are saying that is incredibly hard which puts people off. We could promote Tanoa on other servers and pull people on it to populate it more and observe how situation develops?

If you want to practice escape and evasion, observation, navigation and execute satisfying hit and run guerilla attacks or crawl endlessly to get that perfect view of AO without being seen, Tanoa is for you! Perfect to practice for NAK Tac nights!!

P.S. one player tried using mortars today to give some close support but he couldn't find or use artillery computer, he said it is not present. Maybe it was left out intentionally? When I tried mortars in SP though and arty computer was on the mortar itself if I'm not mistaking? I need to check it for myself to give more details if its a problem or just player error.

Also there were instances where pilots end up fighting on the ground against their own will because they are downed alot, making a problem for pilots to follow server rules which creates confusion sometimes and prevents players from abiding by NAK guidelines, rules and standards other NAK servers successfully uphold. Even though situations demand it sometimes (e.g. pilots downed and stuck with inf on the ground or engaging AI Air from base.) in order to keep the standards of conduct and making it easier for players to conform to it this needs to be looked at. Also some Tanoa pilots were on TS in lobby but got timed out because on admins were on line. This creates a confusion for the pilots where they get timed out of the lobby and are in game thus making them liable to warnings and bans withouth their fault.

It also presented me with a problem specifically where you see the rule broken without players fault and feel like you need to worn them that the rule is broken an consequences of it. Up to now I politely tell the player proper rules and try to help them to mantain NAK standards and so far it was always ok due to good nature of players and their wilingness to follow NAK server rules but something that should be monitored in the future when more diverse people start to populate the server because it can give them an excuse to abuse those situations for goofing around and such. so people don't feel that they are braking the rules arbitrarily. Just one more thought.
Ok, i'm done :)

Kudos!
M
Creating riots since 1985

User avatar
VileAce
Site Admin
Posts: 1327
Joined: April 6th, 2017, 1:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

NAK Command

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

March 16th, 2019, 3:25 pm

Armour values:
Tanks and other heavy vehicles have way too much amour. Today it took us 2 RPG shots and 2 titan shots to destroy Nyx from 150 meters out which felt odd and I had that instance multiple times, AA vehicle soking up 3 or 4 titan AT top down missiles before cooking. It could be that our AT weapon employment lacks precision because I had instances on server where I have employed Titan top down guided attacks on tanks engines and it would cook up from one shot, so it could be lousy AT weapons usage, or buffed up vehicles. I don't know.
Armour is standard Arma armour - there is no change to the armour strength.
Making arty firing only at players noticed by other AI if that is possible (sound complicate to implement imo)
This is how it works. There are set classes of AI spotters and if they see you they call in artillery. Keep in mind that Arma does have an issue where the AI can see you even if you can not see them.

General response to most of your other points. The only way that we can keep the missions fresh and to make sure they are bug free is to have one mission file that works on all three servers. So we develop to the greater common denominator with is Altis. We can make minor changes based on map but it will be some time before you see many changes. Being blunt, we have developed separate missions, for each server, in the recent past, but do to low server usage it was a waste of time. I know it may seem a little unbalanced at times but having a single mission for all maps, but it is the only practical way for us to continue with our limited resources.
P.S. one player tried using mortars today to give some close support but he couldn't find or use artillery computer, he said it is not present. Maybe it was left out intentionally? When I tried mortars in SP though and arty computer was on the mortar itself if I'm not mistaking? I need to check it for myself to give more details if its a problem or just player error.
The FGS gunner role, is the only role with a Artillery computer. Make sure whomever is controlling artillery in in that spot, or there are videos on YouTube that will explain how to use artillery without a computer.

User avatar
Riot
Posts: 39
Joined: March 3rd, 2019, 2:48 pm
Location: Croatia

March 16th, 2019, 4:56 pm

Thx for quick reply!
Armour is standard Arma armour - there is no change to the armour strength.
Yeah I was afraid it was due to impact point and bad aiming, I was just hoping for the other response ;)
This is how it works. There are set classes of AI spotters and if they see you they call in artillery.
Yeah probably i was noticed like that then. Hard cover is a must and even more careful approach.
The FGS gunner role, is the only role with a Artillery computer. Make sure whomever is controlling artillery in in that spot, or there are videos on YouTube that will explain how to use artillery without a computer.
Yeah I mentioned to him that it can be used manually and calculated but wasn't sure how it works on servers. I need to try that old fashioned way soon.
I know it may seem a little unbalanced at times but having a single mission for all maps, but it is the only practical way for us to continue with our limited resources.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it wasn't a critique. The amount of work put into NAK community and servers is mind boggling and inspiring, just show how much love this community has towards the game, and as I said. as soon as there is around10ish players online, things go much smoother, and if one puts your mind into it, solo player can make some nice progress.
And mission is GREAT, it has a lot of variety! Personally I LOVE that on Tanoa you are in situations where you are actually overrun and have to hold on for your life. I literally hid in a small toilet while AI passed through the neighborhood and friendly soldier knocks on my door... Priceless!! 8-)

Thx
Creating riots since 1985

Cuff
Posts: 37
Joined: February 8th, 2017, 1:27 am
Location: San Diego

March 18th, 2019, 3:35 am

The FGS gunner role, is the only role with a Artillery computer. Make sure whomever is controlling artillery in in that spot, or there are videos on YouTube that will explain how to use artillery without a computer.

Yeah I mentioned to him that it can be used manually and calculated but wasn't sure how it works on servers. I need to try that old fashioned way soon.
I will add to this that sometimes the calculations are off but I love playing as recon and mortar. I rarely use computer as i have my own little grid table for altis, tenoa malden and another map i have nicknamed Desert hills from a nak tak mission months ago.

Get used to the mortar setup as the "old fashioned way" and you will actually get more accurate then the computer. I will add, a computer launched mortar round will not easily shoot down a helicopter. Math and manual will ;)

Another note, see you in game sometime soon. PC is fixed. :D
~Leshii

wmetcalf
Posts: 79
Joined: February 3rd, 2018, 11:35 am

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

March 19th, 2019, 8:25 am

Excellent read, and I have had many of the experiences you mention. Tried the CIA rescue a few times. Never could figure out how to finish it. After I free the captive, I take a quick look at the map to see where the exit point is and when I switch back a few seconds later, the captive has disappeared! Does he head for the exit himself? Can't locate him on the map. I can get to the exit vehicles myself, but never have figured out where the captive goes when I look away.

Tanoa doesn't allow for sloppy play. It requires stealth and planning. The liberal use of Vipers requires players to carefully search and detect AI without the crutch of thermals - and those boys can literally melt into the landscape! I have conquered several AO's solo, but it isn't easy. I kind of feel like this server is for "post-graduate" players. Noobs need not apply, unless accompanying a group. This is a dream setting for sniper players who relish a long, slow slog through the trees and foliage, to a spot very distant from targets, leaving only a few peek holes through which to take shots without being discovered. There is no placing yourself on a wide open ridge for a Turkey-shoot. You will likely die after your first shot.

Tanoa is saddled with with a lot of imperfection, as are all titles which use AI opponents, but if one accepts the quirks and works around them, It provides some great atmosphere and a real sense of suspense and fear. Crawling through beautiful, lush tropical settings with jungle birds cawing in the background makes one feel like they are immersed in their own movie. Hell, playing Tanoa is almost like taking a Maui vacation. Sometimes I just enjoy going for the scenery - not for the bullets.
AKA: Bosco19

User avatar
Riot
Posts: 39
Joined: March 3rd, 2019, 2:48 pm
Location: Croatia

March 21st, 2019, 5:36 am

Cuff wrote:
Get used to the mortar setup as the "old fashioned way" and you will actually get more accurate then the computer. I will add, a computer launched mortar round will not easily shoot down a helicopter. Math and manual will ;)
Hey! I tried it, And I am really lost. If you wouldn't mind taking some time to elaborate your manual technique. I have occupied FSG gunner slot on Tanoa and never have arty computer option visible. It is weird. I tried this multiple times. I even tries fsg commander role, same results.
I tried using manual method and have no problem with it with ACE map tools when I fire it up in the editor, but on Tanoa server I don't have access to those map tools to work with. Maybe I'm doing something wrong on the server? How do you work with map on server to calculate needed data?

wmetcalf wrote:
Tanoa is saddled with with a lot of imperfection, as are all titles which use AI opponents, but if one accepts the quirks and works around them, It provides some great atmosphere and a real sense of suspense and fear. Crawling through beautiful, lush tropical settings with jungle birds cawing in the background makes one feel like they are immersed in their own movie. Hell, playing Tanoa is almost like taking a Maui vacation. Sometimes I just enjoy going for the scenery - not for the bullets.
That is so true, so many times when observing I just enjoy the scenery, beaches, the Sun... really gives a movie feel to it in a way. I look at the beach, look up at the palm tree and array of calibers starts to disturb the sand around me, as cacophony of rifles pierces my ears... just another day on the beach on Tanoa... gotta love it!
Creating riots since 1985

wmetcalf
Posts: 79
Joined: February 3rd, 2018, 11:35 am

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

March 21st, 2019, 12:54 pm

Tried the CIA captive mission again. This time, after "releasing" the captive, I just kept watching him. In a few seconds he just disappears! Is this a bug? Does he "go somewhere"?
AKA: Bosco19

User avatar
Adonis
Posts: 57
Joined: February 4th, 2019, 4:25 pm
Location: Greenville, SC

NAK Tac

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

March 21st, 2019, 1:59 pm

wmetcalf wrote:
March 21st, 2019, 12:54 pm
Tried the CIA captive mission again. This time, after "releasing" the captive, I just kept watching him. In a few seconds he just disappears! Is this a bug? Does he "go somewhere"?
Did you get any XP for it?
Cal Poly Engineering
CO '16

wmetcalf
Posts: 79
Joined: February 3rd, 2018, 11:35 am

NAK Elite

NAK Donor

March 23rd, 2019, 10:05 am

Don't recall if the audible "mission accomplish" sounded , or if points were awarded, but I don't think so. Will have to try one again and pay attention to that.
AKA: Bosco19

Cuff
Posts: 37
Joined: February 8th, 2017, 1:27 am
Location: San Diego

March 25th, 2019, 4:10 am

Riot wrote:
March 21st, 2019, 5:36 am
Hey! I tried it, And I am really lost. If you wouldn't mind taking some time to elaborate your manual technique. I have occupied FSG gunner slot on Tanoa and never have arty computer option visible. It is weird. I tried this multiple times. I even tries FSG commander role, same results.
I tried using manual method and have no problem with it with ACE map tools when I fire it up in the editor, but on Tanoa server I don't have access to those map tools to work with. Maybe I'm doing something wrong on the server? How do you work with map on server to calculate needed data?
Here is a copy and paste of the copy and paste I printed off.



82mm Mortar - Close


100m - 84.25

200m - 78.25

300m - 71.60

400m - 63.45

500m - 45.00

82mm Mortar - Medium

150m - 87.88

200m - 87.15

300m - 85.70

400m - 84.25

500m - 82.80

600m - 81.15

700m - 79.75

800m - 78.25

900m - 76.65

1000m - 75.00

1500m - 60.00

1750m - 45.06

2000m - 45.00

82mm Mortar - Far

100m - 89.297

200m - 88.594

300m - 87.890

400m - 87.185

500m - 86.478

600m - 85.769

700m - 85.057

800m - 84.342

900m - 83.624

1000m - 82.901

1100m - 82.174

1200m - 81.442

1300m - 80.704

1400m - 79.959

1500m - 79.207

1600m - 78.448

1700m - 77.679

1800m - 76.901

1900m - 76.113

2000m - 75.313

2100m - 74.500

2200m - 73.673

2300m - 72.830

2400m - 71.971

2500m - 71.092

2600m - 70.191

2700m - 69.267

2800m - 68.315

2900m - 67.332

3000m - 66.314

3100m - 65.255

3200m - 64.255

3300m - 62.984

3400m - 61.751

3500m - 60.432

3600m - 59.002

3700m - 57.424

3800m - 55.629

3900m - 53.483

4000m - 50.593

Tips and Stuff:

The 82mm mortar elevation only goes up to 88!
You can do more fine adjustments by holding the Shift key.
You can get the approximate elevation for distances between the given ones easily with the following:
(distance1 elevation + distance2 elevation) / 2 = distance3 elevation.
Example:
600m - 81.15
800m - 78.25
700m ≈ (81.15 + 78.25) / 2 ≈ 79.7
===============================================
Also here is where I learned, maybe google translate the page or something sorry. Original post is German.
https://wiki.tacticalteam.de/index.php? ... Artillerie

The 4000m is farthest you can legally shoot, however, higher vantage points firing on lower you can get an extra 437meters out of it, tested from highest point in Tanoa and Altis to lowest/farthest in range.In addition I recommend being a dedicated team with a JTAC. Not advise darters as they are not accurate with movement but if required can be used for rough walk on targeting.

Sorry for late reply. I'm messing with my PC to boost it and haven't been focusing.

I recommend printing it off if possible anywhere or writing it down, as well a small map print out of the map you are on, topi style, so you can manually mark, if you can get it laminated with clear tape or a real lamination and use a erasable marker, it will help a lot. I got the ARMA 3 Maps from Bohemia laminated and used it before I went major offline.

Feel free to add me on steam we can play and learn together on Tanoa and Altis with the MK6. I learned mortar on altis as more line of sight to confirm and adjust to get better before indirect fire applies more.

~Leshii

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users